Fair offers on new Taylors

[RD]

Hi,
New to the forum so please forgive me if this question is redundant or has been asked before.  I want to buy a 314ce v class, and was curious if I can get one for around 80% of MSRP?  Or would such an offer be seen as an insult.  Thinking of calling around if the answer is yes (or less!😁). I did search the forums for similar posts but didn’t find any.

Thanks,
RD

[Strumming Fool]

Taylor no longer uses MSRP. The advertised price is the same as the price listed on the Taylor website.

[timfitz63]

Welcome!

My experience has been that price is always negotiable with Taylor dealers.

As "Strumming Fool" mentioned, Taylor changed their pricing structure a few years back, and I haven't purchased a new guitar since that occurred, so I'm not up on the current street discount.  But as the old adage goes:  Ask; the worst they can do is say "no..."

[Frettingflyer]

I think they call the price MAP-Minimum advertised price. You can probably get most dealers to come down from this but how much will depend on the dealer and the specific guitar. No harm in asking.

[RD]

Thank you!  I need to start “kicking tires.”  And that’ll be fun in it’s own right!

[TrampsLikeUs]

I've gotten as much as 20% off a few times on a new Taylor.  Offer it,  if they don't accept it,  walk out.  If they don't stop you ,  go back the next day and buy it.

[boneuphtoner]

I don't frankly understand how or why different manufacturers list different products and the different meanings from company to company.  Taylor's web prices are the same that you see at the retailers, and in my experience you can expect to get 15-20% discounts at some stores.  Martin's web prices are inflated much higher, the retailers advertise discounts off of this, and some stores will give you discounts on top of this - in my experience with Martins before the pandemic many shops would give you 35% off of the Martin list price - and this approach is consistent to what I saw in the band instrument world.

Since I started on Taylors, I assumed many of the Martin standard series models like an HD-28 were out of my price range because I thought the street price discounts would be the same - boy I was wrong on that!

[Gabrielobrien]

I was a dealer for nearly 20 years. Even a dealer going out of business can't afford to lose that much on a guitar. 80% off would be beyond upside down. MSRP no longer exists. When music catalogs and the Internet started having regular price wars, most brands in the industry adopted MAP, or Minimum Advertised Price, as a standard - this was meant to be the lowest price you could advertise as a sale for your big Christmas sale or what have you. But what actually happened is it immediately became the default price for everything, and on top of that those same companies spend 10+ years with 15% off everything banners permanently on their websites. It killed margins on MI retail goods. Margins at MAP are pretty poor, in all reality. I haven't been a dealer for a few years and I'm still bound by an NDA on many things, but the cheapest and most expensive items generally have the worst margins. There were amps with a MAP of $99 that we made $9 IF we bought them on special from the manufacturer. Indie stores also have it harder. GC, who are filing bankruptcy, are owned by private equity companies. For a company like that, carrying debt and having negative growth is basically a tax deduction fo the private equity company. That's why they're purchased as leveraged buyouts with high interest junk bonds - they're not MEANT to turn a profit. For indie stores they have to be profitable or they go out of business. So the whole, "make them a lowball offer ant walk out if they don't take it" tactic I do not recommend. It'll get you a reputation as a jerk. And sure I would take a jerk's money when I worked retail, but I wouldn't reward them the way I did my regulars. The regular customers who were cool, who came to me first, who weren't ball busters on every single thing with silly threats? Those are the people I gave awesome deals to when I could. They're the people I did free repairs for while they waited, I helped when they had an emergency, or needed a loaner for their recording session. The hardass people who want to feel like big tough negotiations, sure I'd take a low margin sale once in a while. But the regular every day stuff I'd never give them a deal, they paid full mark for every repair. I had a guy negotiating for a strat with me, and I was literally down to making about 15% on it. GC offered it for a 5% less and I took a pass. He ordered it from them and it came in playing terrible and with a loose ground wire. I made more on the setup and charging Fender for the warranty repair than I would have on selling the guitar.

[Frettingflyer]

I was a dealer for nearly 20 years. Even a dealer going out of business can't afford to lose that much on a guitar. 80% off would be beyond upside down. MSRP no longer exists. When music catalogs and the Internet started having regular price wars, most brands in the industry adopted MAP, or Minimum Advertised Price, as a standard - this was meant to be the lowest price you could advertise as a sale for your big Christmas sale or what have you. But what actually happened is it immediately became the default price for everything, and on top of that those same companies spend 10+ years with 15% off everything banners permanently on their websites. It killed margins on MI retail goods. Margins at MAP are pretty poor, in all reality. I haven't been a dealer for a few years and I'm still bound by an NDA on many things, but the cheapest and most expensive items generally have the worst margins. There were amps with a MAP of $99 that we made $9 IF we bought them on special from the manufacturer. Indie stores also have it harder. GC, who are filing bankruptcy, are owned by private equity companies. For a company like that, carrying debt and having negative growth is basically a tax deduction fo the private equity company. That's why they're purchased as leveraged buyouts with high interest junk bonds - they're not MEANT to turn a profit. For indie stores they have to be profitable or they go out of business. So the whole, "make them a lowball offer ant walk out if they don't take it" tactic I do not recommend. It'll get you a reputation as a jerk. And sure I would take a jerk's money when I worked retail, but I wouldn't reward them the way I did my regulars. The regular customers who were cool, who came to me first, who weren't ball busters on every single thing with silly threats? Those are the people I gave awesome deals to when I could. They're the people I did free repairs for while they waited, I helped when they had an emergency, or needed a loaner for their recording session. The hardass people who want to feel like big tough negotiations, sure I'd take a low margin sale once in a while. But the regular every day stuff I'd never give them a deal, they paid full mark for every repair. I had a guy negotiating for a strat with me, and I was literally down to making about 15% on it. GC offered it for a 5% less and I took a pass. He ordered it from them and it came in playing terrible and with a loose ground wire. I made more on the setup and charging Fender for the warranty repair than I would have on selling the guitar.

Thanks for the insight, but I think his post said 80% of, not off MAP. So he is asking if he might get it for 20% off. I am a ‘regular” customer at my FLGS, and I can see where I fall from your description. I am glad to have a good relationship there even though my buying days are limited now that I am very happy with my collection.

[Len J]

........ GC, who are filing bankruptcy, are owned by private equity companies. For a company like that, carrying debt and having negative growth is basically a tax deduction for the private equity company. That's why they're purchased as leveraged buyouts with high interest junk bonds - they're not MEANT to turn a profit. .....

Just a clarification....  I worked in the PE/LBO industry for 20 years, this is not how they work, at all.  PE/LBO's make their money by increasing cash flow and growth using leverage to facilitate that, hard stop.  When they have a dog portfolio company (Like GC), it's only then that they try to maximize cash flow by generating Net operating Tax losses in order to carry back those losses against profitable years to get tax refunds, but, that's only usually good for a short period of time and not something they try to do continually. 

Len

[Edward]

........ GC, who are filing bankruptcy, are owned by private equity companies. For a company like that, carrying debt and having negative growth is basically a tax deduction for the private equity company. That's why they're purchased as leveraged buyouts with high interest junk bonds - they're not MEANT to turn a profit. .....

Just a clarification....  I worked in the PE/LBO industry for 20 years, this is not how they work, at all.  PE/LBO's make their money by increasing cash flow and growth using leverage to facilitate that, hard stop.  When they have a dog portfolio company (Like GC), it's only then that they try to maximize cash flow by generating Net operating Tax losses in order to carry back those losses against profitable years to get tax refunds, but, that's only usually good for a short period of time and not something they try to do continually. 

Len

Man is google my friend (sometimes, like now ).  Took me a few searches and some reading, but yeah, I get it.  Gotta love it when smart folks come in to add perspective ...thanks for that, Len!

Edward