Author Topic: Something's Wrong  (Read 3150 times)

VTexan

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Something's Wrong
« on: July 08, 2016, 07:35:03 PM »
I bought a 2012 314ce last week and am having a blast playing it...except when I hook it up to my Fishman Loudbox amp. I can't get it to sound anything like it does un-amplified. It sounds processed and unnatural. It doesn't sound tinny per se, but the mids and mid-highs seem the most unnaturally reproduced.

I did the standard stuff: set all the amp controls at detente, adding no lows, mids or highs, and the same on the lows and high controls on the guitar. Sounds...not good.
I tried taking out some of the highs and mids, and the obnoxiousness definitely goes down some, but it still doesn't sound good. And yes--I put a new battery in, in case it was on the wane. The input level on the amp is fairly low--3 to 5 on a scale of 10.

What I'm looking for it to do is to sound like a natural acoustic guitar sounds. I should say that I have NO problem getting a good approximation of that when I hook up my Takamine and my Martin. I can get a good, clean sound with very little problem on both of them.

The guy I bought it from told me this guitar has the Expression 1 system (I think it's called), not the 2 system. Perhaps that's the reason they made the 2 system, I don't know. Whatever the case, I'm looking for a solution. Any ideas? Thanks!

It's pretty much of a drag because I have been enjoying the hell out of the new/old Taylor
2018 Taylor GS Mini
2016 Taylor 214ce-N
2012 Taylor 314ce
2015 Martin GPCPA5
2015 Ventura VWDONAT

sstaylor58

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Re: Something's Wrong
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2016, 08:39:19 PM »
Does it have AA or 9 volt?  The AA 's were the first version...mine broke after awhile.  If it's 9 v then I don't know, they were pretty reliable.  Best to take it in to a Taylor dealer and have them check it out.  Good luck!
Taylor 314ce
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VTexan

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Re: Something's Wrong
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2016, 08:56:55 PM »
It's a 9 volt.
Thanks.
2018 Taylor GS Mini
2016 Taylor 214ce-N
2012 Taylor 314ce
2015 Martin GPCPA5
2015 Ventura VWDONAT

Frettingflyer

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Re: Something's Wrong
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2016, 06:14:11 AM »
I think 2012 should have the 1.3 version which should be pretty good. I have a 1.1 and it seems fine with my Loudbox mini. I do know that there is a fuse that is often blown in some of them, not sure if that would have this affect? Hopefully some of the more knowledgeable guys will see this and respond. Good luck.
Dave
2014 Koa GS Mini-e FLTD (for the wife)
2004 314ce,
2014 custom GC Coco/Euro spruce
2015 Wildwood 812ce 12 fret
2016 522ce 12 fret
2019 K24ce BE
2021 322e
2017 Blackbird Lucky 13
2019 Mcpherson Sable

cheetah236

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Re: Something's Wrong
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2016, 10:48:25 AM »
Are you using the Taylor balanced cable with the XLR plug at the amp end? (https://amzn.com/B00GZY5938 )  That's the only way I can get acceptable amplified performance out of any Taylor I've owned with Expression System. The ES2 introduced a year or so ago doesn't require the special cable and will produce full results with a standard instrument cable.

You might want to invest in the balanced cable and also carry the Shure A85F impedance-matching transformer (https://amzn.com/B0006NMUHW) that converts the low impedance, balanced ES output to high-impedance. It allows plugging the Taylor into a standard (high impedance) instrument jack common on electric guitar amps and some PA's.
2011 914CE
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Frettingflyer

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Re: Something's Wrong
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2016, 10:10:22 PM »
Thanks Cheetah, can't believe I forgot to mention the balanced cable, but I am not sure about the 1.3 version needing it? Might solve all your problems
Dave
2014 Koa GS Mini-e FLTD (for the wife)
2004 314ce,
2014 custom GC Coco/Euro spruce
2015 Wildwood 812ce 12 fret
2016 522ce 12 fret
2019 K24ce BE
2021 322e
2017 Blackbird Lucky 13
2019 Mcpherson Sable

VTexan

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Re: Something's Wrong
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2016, 10:58:14 PM »
Interesting. So you're saying the 1/4" plug out of the guitar to an XLR on the other end to input into the amp, and that will make a marked difference in sound?
2018 Taylor GS Mini
2016 Taylor 214ce-N
2012 Taylor 314ce
2015 Martin GPCPA5
2015 Ventura VWDONAT

VTexan

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Re: Something's Wrong
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2016, 10:29:41 AM »
Follow-up question: the XLR input in my Fishman Loudbox Mini is specifically marked "mic." Clearly they had that in mind for someone adding a vocal mic to the guitar inputs available on the 2 other channels. Are the technical parameters of that mic input such that it won't reproduce a clear and acoustic guitar-like sound? Is it designed quite specifically to re-produce vocals, and therefore not do so well with guitar?
Inquiring minds want to know...
2018 Taylor GS Mini
2016 Taylor 214ce-N
2012 Taylor 314ce
2015 Martin GPCPA5
2015 Ventura VWDONAT

Edward

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Re: Something's Wrong
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2016, 11:39:13 AM »
Interesting. So you're saying the 1/4" plug out of the guitar to an XLR on the other end to input into the amp, and that will make a marked difference in sound?

Well hold on for a moment...yes and no.

Your initial post was with regard to your ES (which BTW in 2012 was the ES 1, but the third update, which many abbreviate as ES 1.3).  It is a very good sounding system, but assuming it is in proper order, if its tone is not to your liking, then it likely never will be.  Some folks simply prefer the piezo tone, as this is what is commonly used in a bazillion guitars out there (like Taks and Martins).  So if this is what one is accustomed to hearing, then the ES 1.3 can put you off ...again, assuming your ES is good and not faulty.

The balanced cable (1/4" TRS to XLR) does nothing for tone, nothing!  Running a balanced line will give you a stronger output (6db, IIRC), better signal/noise, and eliminates issues when cable-length is long.  If you have no issue with getting proper gain and have no cable-noise issues, then using a balanced line does not improve anything. 

I would go to a store and compare your guitar with another ES 1 guitar off their wall and see if yours is, indeed, working properly.  From this point, you can then decide which direction to go. 

And as for the "mic" input on your Fishman, I will "guess" that they EQ'd that preamp for vocals, so plugging in an instrument may not get you the best results.  But that question is best answered by Fishman ...drop em a line and find out for certain. Hope that gives you a few things to think about. :)


Edward
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 11:42:10 AM by Edward »

VTexan

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Re: Something's Wrong
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2016, 11:58:53 AM »
It doesn't sound like it's malfunctioning. It just sounds more like an electric guitar. And not a clean Strat sound. My attempt is to just attain a clean, acoustic guitar sound.

I also have acoustic/electric Martin GPCPA5 and a Takamine EG530SC. Both of those I can make sound like natural acoustic guitars on the same amp/cord, just made louder by coming out of an amplifier.

It's not the end of the world, and I don't DISlike it. It's just the only aspect to my Taylor 314ce that isn't, per my inclinations, outstanding. If you see no real possibility in improving the sound with a 1/4" to XLR cord I won't bother.
2018 Taylor GS Mini
2016 Taylor 214ce-N
2012 Taylor 314ce
2015 Martin GPCPA5
2015 Ventura VWDONAT

Edward

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Re: Something's Wrong
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2016, 05:45:03 PM »
It doesn't sound like it's malfunctioning. ...My attempt is to just attain a clean, acoustic guitar sound....

Well the "malfunctioning" is the part you don't truly know, which is why I suggest the comparison.

And yes, there are plenty of folks who can't stand the way the ES1 sounds and prefer their own pickup system (or the ES2 which is also a piezo transducer), just as there are plenty of folks who get good, clean acoustic tone from their ES1 variants.  It really is a rift in what we perceive as "good" acoustic tone. 

FWIW, I've used and currently use both ES1.2 and 1.3 (which I personally think is a bit better than 1.2) and have zero issue getting excellent acoustic guitar tone: natural, crisp, sounds like an acoustic tone!  Then again, I don't go into an amp and go straight into the house's snake-to-console/PA as I have yet to find a truly natural sounding acoustic guitar amp that pleases me ...but that's a whole 'nuther story ;)

Edward