Am I missing something on V- bracing thought process/Can of worms thread

[TLAW]

Ok bear with me cuz I am by no means anything but a shade tree guitar player...

One of the 'It" factors people say comes with V-Bracing seems to be that it "stays in tune all the way of the neck"....

My question is ...How does "interior" bracing have an effect on that?

I would guess that the necks & neck angles, frets & measurements and such are still the same basic principles as pre V-class in the build so I'm trying to understand how interior wood design can actually help the intonation in the neck?

Sound, tone, timbre and loudness ...yeah I can buy that would be changed & even dramatically in some cases..I'm just trying to understand how internal parts can better enable the exterior tuning/intonation/gauge/tension and mathmatical measurements on the outside of the guitar stay more "in tune"...

fwiw... my "mid to higher end" guitars do the same thing when adjusted/set up correctly....and the more & longer I play them they eventually continue to need tweaked/reset  to get them there again...

Honestly I hope I'm not stepping on too many toes but I wish somebody could explain it at a laymens level...

I'm willing/interested to listen..

Thanks in advance!

[zeebow]

check out this video

https://acousticlife.tv/tag/andy-powers/

[RileyKendall]

At about 17:45 he starts answering the intonation question.

https://youtu.be/_Hy6dy82l1M

[ClassicRock]

In Polecastro’s meandering style, it takes 77 minutes to touch all the bases but this is the complete explanation of Andy Power’s objectives, thought process and results—at least from Taylor’s POV.  It really is a must-watch if you’re really interested in all the nitty-gritty behind V-Class.

The other thing I would add (reading between the lines) is that Bob Taylor has to be thrilled to finally shuck the last vestige of Martin copy-cat design from his guitars.

[jpmist]

Ok bear with me cuz I am by no means anything but a shade tree guitar player...
One of the 'It" factors people say comes with V-Bracing seems to be that it "stays in tune all the way of the neck"....

My question is ...How does "interior" bracing have an effect on that?

Sound, tone, timbre and loudness ...yeah I can buy that would be changed & even dramatically in some cases..I'm just trying to understand how internal parts can better enable the exterior tuning/intonation/gauge/tension and mathmatical measurements on the outside of the guitar stay more "in tune"...

Honestly I hope I'm not stepping on too many toes but I wish somebody could explain it at a laymens level...
I'm willing/interested to listen..

I'm no expert and didn't watch the video, but have read much on "V" stuff, and I've actually played one. My take is that the "in tune" aspect has to do with reducing the amount of dissonant competing frequencies off the main note you're playing up the neck.

Just googled guitar string physics and came up with this web site which shows some nice graphics of note and overtone frequencies. This should help in understanding the whole "in tune" issue. http://www.bsharp.org/physics/guitar 

If you think of a guitar top as a drumhead, a luthier has to put a bridge somewhere on it. Then braces are required to keep the bridge from being pulled off of the top. Just as a drum note will sound different depending on where on the drumhead you strike it (center versus edge), so will the guitar top sound different depending on where the bridge and braces are placed.

What Powers seems to have hit on is a bracing that allows the struck note's frequency to be stronger than the competing overtones. How or why I dunno, but I've heard the difference myself and am ready to write the check as soon as Taylor puts out a V-braced 322 12 fret.

[zeebow]

there’s so much controversy over the intonation, but there are plenty of analogies to other things in life. neck angles, heights..they are compensation methods, but everything plays a role.

in photography, “exposure” is made up of many parameters, aperture, integration time, sensitivity.

even TV, just because 2 tv’s have the same resolution, doesn’t mean the image quality is the same. there’s backlighting uniformity, color reproduction, dynamic range...

my point is the guitar is a system, everything plays a part

i noticed even a difference playing open chords, particularly a full G

just like taylor, i’ll say, i can hear a difference in tone, but i’m not (and neither is taylor) suggesting V is better than X, tone wise...but in terms of intonation, i was able to notice things sounds more harmonious

there is a guide in the latest wood and steel for their recommendation on how to test drive V class. try it on a X and V brace and see if you can tell the diff

[ClassicRock]

i noticed even a difference playing open chords, particularly a full G

I bought a V-Class K24ce about a month ago. In my instant analysis, I felt that most of the effects were only noticeable playing up the fret. So, I’ve been practicing with this guitar exclusively for about a month. I finally decided to get the custom HD28V out again. Now, after getting used to the V-Class, I’m hearing major differences everywhere. Frankly, I am shocked at how my ability to hear it has magnified so much.

The V-Class tuners haven’t been touched in weeks, while I had great difficulty tuning the HD28V. Even using GuitarTuna, the +/- reading, especially on the wound strings, was bouncing all over the place. I could not get a consistent “0” reading. Open chords now sound confused on the X-braced guitar, even cacophonous to some extent. The single word that best describes what V-bracing brings is “clarity”. This is really beginning to change my view of the guitar world because the tone of the HD28V with forward shifted, scalloped bracing is held in such high regard. Now, I’m questioning it.

I will say that the Rosewood guitar filled the room with a wonderful scent that you don’t get from Koa and I’ve missed that.

[jpmist]

The V-Class tuners haven’t been touched in weeks, while I had great difficulty tuning the HD28V. Even using GuitarTuna, the +/- reading, especially on the wound strings, was bouncing all over the place. I could not get a consistent “0” reading. Open chords now sound confused on the X-braced guitar, even cacophonous to some extent. The single word that best describes what V-bracing brings is “clarity”. This is really beginning to change my view of the guitar world because the tone of the HD28V with forward shifted, scalloped bracing is held in such high regard. Now, I’m questioning it.

Yikes, but thanks for the backup. I think your tuner is demonstrating the whole reducing competing frequencies thing in play and really gutsy of you to state something critical about a Martin HD28V here on this forum. I suggest you keep an eye out for black SUV's parked outside your house . . .   

"Clarity" is a good choice of terminology and I can't wait to hear it on a 322 12-fret V whenever they get around to making one.

[boneuphtoner]

"Richness with clarity" is how I would describe my 324e V-Class.  After enjoying clarity with mahogany and richness with rosewood in the past, this model has successfully combined them.  However - I will say that I'm not at all sure that this is attributable to the V-Class.  The one that I tried at a Road show didn't have the more elaborate inlays that mine has.

[ClassicRock]

really gutsy of you to state something critical about a Martin HD28V here on this forum. I suggest you keep an eye out for black SUV's parked outside your house . . .   

Yeah, I know. I’ve been walking a tightrope of warnings and suspensions at every guitar forum I’ve joined. Sometimes the truth hurts. I still like the HD28V but what’s happened after playing the V-Class everyday for four weeks is that my ears have adjusted. Just like your eyes adjust to the light, your nose adjusts to fine wines and your touch adjusts to learning guitar playing, your ears adjust over time to new sounds. This is another piece of the learning curve about V-Class bracing and why snap judgments are of no account.

My latest analogy is Thanksgiving dinner. If there is apple pie and pumpkin pie for dessert, I will ask for a slice of each and thank those who made them.

[ClassicRock]

"Richness with clarity" is how I would describe my 324e V-Class.  After enjoying clarity with mahogany and richness with rosewood in the past, this model has successfully combined them.  However - I will say that I'm not at all sure that this is attributable to the V-Class.  The one that I tried at a Road show didn't have the more elaborate inlays that mine has.

I will be interested to see what you think after playing it every day for a while. It was a revelation to me when I pulled out my old guitar. The light bulb finally went off.