Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer

[zeebow]

saw something rather interesting today, noticed that a few guitars from Taylor are now available to buy direct from Taylor.

This is a large shift from my experience with Taylor - when i first started playing Taylor in 2010, i remember them expressing how much their dealer network meant to them as a brand - Taylor wanted to focus on building quality guitars, and wanted to let the dealer be the customer facing representative.

that now appears to have shifted, as you can buy a 314ce, 814ce and even the mexican made gs mini rosewood direct from taylor.

just curious how you guys feel about this - but to me, it’s a bad look. i have always considered taylor to be passionate and stewards of the environment. this move just makes them appear to be chasing improving profit margins.

love to hear your discussion, bc maybe i’m just missing the point.

[Earl]

Zee, I looked through their web site and the only direct order I saw was for Taylor Ware items like straps, tuners, t-shirts, and accessories.  I found no mention of ordering guitars directly from the factory.  That would be a major departure from longstanding prior policy.  Perhaps I missed something too?

I am heavily into carbon fiber guitars these days instead of wood.  At least one of those brands have recently dropped their dealer network in favor of direct sales, and another brand went factory-direct a dozen years ago.  But CF is a small niche market.  All the brands of carbon fiber guitar & ukulele combined sells fewer instruments in a year than Taylor builds in a week or two.  The only wood guitars left now in my house are a 2007 Taylor 424-LTD in all koa, a 30+ year old Seagull M6, and an Alvarez ABT60 baritone.  Oh, and a Guild classical that was gifted to me but gets played maybe once a year.  Carbon fiber gets 95% of my play time.  I even have a composite ukulele, a Blackbird Farallon tenor uke.

[zeebow]

Zee, I looked through their web site and the only direct order I saw was for Taylor Ware items like straps, tuners, t-shirts, and accessories.  I found no mention of ordering guitars directly from the factory.  That would be a major departure from longstanding prior policy.  Perhaps I missed something too?

I am heavily into carbon fiber guitars these days instead of wood.  At least one of those brands have recently dropped their dealer network in favor of direct sales, and another brand went factory-direct a dozen years ago.  But CF is a small niche market.  All the brands of carbon fiber guitar & ukulele combined sells fewer instruments in a year than Taylor builds in a week or two.  The only wood guitars left now in my house are a 2007 Taylor 424-LTD in all koa, a 30+ year old Seagull M6, and an Alvarez ABT60 baritone.  Oh, and a Guild classical that was gifted to me but gets played maybe once a year.  Carbon fiber gets 95% of my play time.  I even have a composite ukulele, a Blackbird Farallon tenor uke.

Earl, i agree it’s a major departure. they silently added a “add to cart” button on their guitars

here is the link to a gs mini koa plus as an example
https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/gs-mini-e-koa-plus

interestingly, the add to cart button is bright red, while the “see all dealers” is more subtle and underneath.

to me, it feels like they have lost touch with what made them successful (dealer network) and a lack of transparency (like why was this added with no communication)

[Earl]

You are right.  There is also an "add to cart" button on the 412-R which I also checked for reference.  In addition to a sea-change of design philosophy (V-brace, new 500 series, 700 koa series, etc) there might also be big changes in how they operate.  I also have to agree with your final sentence too.  If I had a major investment as an official Taylor dealer, I would be VERY nervous right now.   

[DennisG]

I don’t know this to be true, but I raise it only as a possibility:  is it possible that a sale made with the Add to Cart button is then redirected to a dealer to fulfill?

[Toucan256]

I was checking this out and when I  pulled up the models  for the GT, Urban Ash is no longer available.

[zeebow]

I was checking this out and when I  pulled up the models  for the GT, Urban Ash is no longer available.

rumor is, it’s discontinued.

also rumored that the GT model designation (811GT) will be reduced to just 811, to be consistent with their other number schemes

essentially, (and confusingly) the AD11 (sitka/walnut) seems to have replaced the GT urban ash.

[mgap]

I checked out the 814ce model and went as far as choosing the shipping choices.  So they are shipping from Taylor.  I think this might show that Taylor is selling from their own store.  At the top of the check out cart it reads:
 PLEASE NOTE: TAYLOR SHIPS TO US CUSTOMERS ONLY.
At this time, we are only able to offer shipments to customers within the United States. Please consult our Dealer Locator to find an Authorized Taylor retailer near you.

It offered the 814ce, with hardshell case,
the cart has a promo code for discounts.
shipping options - Free shipping or 1 day or 2 day offerings

This will disrupt the dealer base in a contentious way I am sure.  All those loyal dealers get the stab in the back, and we don't get W&S anymore.  Now I live in an area that does not have a dealer near me, I wonder if anybody else that lives in an area that has a brick and mortar dealer can still go through a check out cart like I did, or will they be diverted to a dealer?   

[donlyn]

Taylor Guitars : Direct to Consumer

I do believe that the pandemic was a direct cause of many stores folding/ downsizing/ struggling/ and generally losing business overall (pick one or more). Given the switch to on-line sales and the resulting backlogs, the entire business seems backward to me right now. Still a couple of stores I can shop at, and haven't done any on-line sales. Local Guitar Center even recently built a dedicated Taylor room, but the selection was kind of limited, at least so far.

The only question I have would be "will Taylor on-line charge a higher price than their dealer network" ?

This also may be something to make up for some lost sales when people could not 'try and buy' or 'play before pay' during the pandemic. There is a whole new dynamic now in buying guitars. Maybe they are forecasting a sea change in the future way guitars are bought and sold and just trying to get ahead of the wave where the alternative is total wipeout.

And there are still stores that do not have an agreement with Taylor because they would have to carry too much inventory for their size and business model. Taylor dealers are required to by 'X' amount of inventory and may not have a lot of choices available. Small music shops around like "Mr. Music" can not sell new Taylor product anyway because they are not an official Taylor dealer. That's another end of the sale spectrum. But they always seem to have some nice used Taylor models in stock, in addition to Martins and others.

Just musing.

Don

[Edward]

The "problem" with a guitar --or any instrument for that matter-- is that they are not blenders.  Who could have ever predicted that we'd have a literal vending machine to purchase a car ...that would have been crazy talk back in the day!  The "I want that model" and the ability to find it optioned and priced to one's own liking is prevalent now more than ever.  And the post-covid-crisis world we now live in has hastened us to that end. 

Well there is no shortage of those who eschew this business model and insist on trying first because a guitar ain't no generic machine.  We know this.  But one of the things Taylor does very well is read the temp in the room.  Time will tell whether this is a good move on the whole, and the mothership will act accordingly, as they typically have done.  The marketplace will speak, no doubt.

Edward

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Interesting that this is the first I'm hearing of this, but I am not surprised.

Over the years a number of manufacturers we've dealt with have decided to go direct, and while not setting the world on fire with their sales, they are surviving. In every case the brands that went direct so far weren't doing that well for us, or other dealers I'm guessing, so going direct might have been a last ditch move by those manufacturers to stay in business. Taylor is different from the others of course, but like the others they will find out soon enough that selling direct is a lot of work.

When we launched our site some 20 years ago, we were one of the first to post actual photos of guitars, a process that can take an hour per guitar. Today people expect to see photos of the actual guitar they are buying so manufacturers selling direct will need to photograph every guitar. People also like to discuss their purchase before making a decision which can take up a lot of man hours. And of course unlike selling to dealers, manufacturers selling direct will need to accept returns and figure out who will cover the hundreds of dollars in round trip shipping, which is something they are definitely not used to dealing with. In short, manufacturers selling direct will need to offer every service their dealers have been offering, including discounting, if they want to make sales.

Good news for guitar dealers is that there is no shortage of manufacturers who want nothing to do with direct sales and know how to keep their dealer network happy and profitable. Helene and I have been talking retirement and selling the business while we are still young, so I probably won't be part of it, but I believe the future of guitar sales through dealers has a very bright future. Today's dealers need to be adept at both online and in store sales, but since the Covid lock downs demand for walk in sales is way up. Something most of us didn't see coming.

Funny thing, when I decided to buy my first expensive acoustic, I went into the Hollywood GC thinking I would buy a Martin D-28, but after playing a bunch of guitars I fell in love with a Taylor 714ce, a brand that I never would have considered if my only options were limited to online shopping.

[Edward]

Wow, so great to hear from you, Ted!  Big thanks for chiming in and lending your thoughts.  On the one hand, congrats on what sounds like an early retirement.  On the other hand, the guitar community will be losing you guys as you were always a superb resource and have a fabulous shop that I've had the pleasure to strum in.

You are spot on about folks wanting not only to see actual pics of the guitar when online shopping, but asking questions and getting feedback is essential to the buyer's experience.  Likewise, having a store with great stock really can surprise.  I dig your story about your 714 as it mimicks mine.  Way back in the day I crossed paths with a GA7e completely unexpectedly.  I had never wanted a Taylor (though I owned a Baby T as my traveler, it never prompted me to check out the company as I knew next to nothing about them).  This chance meeting with a GA7 floored me.  That was the guitar that tipped the scales for me.  So yessir, being able to try before you buy is huge for some, hopefully for many others.

Edward

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Thanks for the kind words, Edward and we are still in the talking stages, so Helene and I are not going anywhere just yet. 

My Taylor story goes back about 25 years at which time the company wasn't that well known. I was lucky that my sales guy took the time to listen to my needs, watched me play and based on that suggested the 714ce. The D-28 would have been the wrong choice for me at the time. Worked out well for Taylor as well because in the next two years I added six or seven more Taylors to my growing arsenal and when we started selling new guitars at LA Guitar Sales, Taylor was the first brand I picked up, becoming one of their top dealers.

[zeebow]

Thanks for the kind words, Edward and we are still in the talking stages, so Helene and I are not going anywhere just yet. 

My Taylor story goes back about 25 years at which time the company wasn't that well known. I was lucky that my sales guy took the time to listen to my needs, watched me play and based on that suggested the 714ce. The D-28 would have been the wrong choice for me at the time. Worked out well for Taylor as well because in the next two years I added six or seven more Taylors to my growing arsenal and when we started selling new guitars at LA Guitar Sales, Taylor was the first brand I picked up, becoming one of their top dealers.

Great hearing from you Ted - you were one of the pioneers of selling guitars online w/ excellence w/ excellent photography and using the internet to touch the customer. Your business has been highly regarded and a pilllar of the guitar community for quite a long time!

There’s been a lot of dialogue across multiple social media platforms - and it’s been interesting to see some of the dialogue that has been going on.

I’d say it’s a split of folks who don’t understand the issue w/ manufacturers selling direct, some that see the issue, and some that are ok w/ taylor going direct.

I def find the lack of transparency shocking - and am trying to do my part, in educating the general public why taylor selling direct is not a positive thing for the guitar community.

I hope that whatever choice you make in regards to retirement - leads you to continued happiness, you have to do what is right for you and your wife - just know, that there are countless guitar enthusiasts who have appreciated what you have done for the industry!

Cheers!

[Earl]

Ted, congrats on exploring retirement.  I am there with you in that I plan to close up my engineering shop in roughly 18-24 months.  A couple of attempts to sell to other companies have not panned out - yet. 

I have been a happy customer of yours for a Blackbird Lucky 13 and a Farallon ukulele, and both transactions have been a pleasure.  I'm realistically done buying instruments at this point, but it is always nice to know a good shop to refer people to, even if I am not buying.  Regarding brands, I had a similar experience.  I was aware of Taylor as a company when I bought my so-called "lifetime" guitar in 1990 but I was firmly imprinted on Martin.  Later I became a convert to the Taylor fold and got rid of all the Martin guitars.  Martin could not compete with the nice neck and playability of the Taylor brand.