456, 756, 856 : 12 strings, what to choose ?

[piemfo]

Hi people 

I am a newbie - you'll find my presentation in the dedicated section...

I am currently in the search for a 12 string - i do currently have a Martin D12-28, but i do not like the neck, albeit if the sound is good for me...

I want to replace it with a Taylor and their incredible necks, but i am in a dilemma :

I tried the 356ce, felt in love with the neck, but not with the sound - I prefer rosewood i guess, that's why i choose the Martin.
So i want now to get a taylor in rosewood, and i have at least 3 choices : 856, 756 and the new 456 FLTD...

As it is difficult for me to try them (very poor music stores in paris, especially for 12's...), i wondered if, as they share the same tone woods, those guitars have similar sounds ?

I play essentially for myself, simple stuff like Neil Young or Bob Dylan, classics in fact 

Do you have any objective, or/and subjective criterias for my future choice ? And did someone tried the trees and can inform me on the respective soundings ?
The budget is not a real criteria (but i am not again paying less  ), as it is a guitar i want to buy for pleasure and for a long time...

Thanks a lot and regards,

piemfo

[ericjungemann]

I've had the GA, Jumbo and GS body Taylor 12 strings.
All good.  Fantastic necks.
In the GS, I've had the 656 and currently have the 556.
Again, both really good.  The 656 was my first ever maple guitar.  I liked it but the 556 sounds much better to me.
Based on my experience, the GS body is the best ever for a 12 string.  Comfortable but with big sound.  But equally, I've had rosewood, sapele, mahogany, rosewood, ovangkol.  I've ended up with mahogany but also like rosewood.
How a guitar looks is also important to me.  I like the darker nature of the 656 (stain, binding).
Probably second (and more expensive) would be 856 (rosewood).  I don't dislike satin finishes on the two lower end models but I really like gloss better.
Net, net . . . they are all great guitars.  Magnificent out of the box.  They all play exactly the same.  So, it is all about how they sound to you and the specifications (inlay, binding, etc.)  Same ES throughout.

Of your choices, the 856 (the most expensive, of course) is a magnificent guitar.

I tune down two steps with Elixir light 12 string phosphor bronze.

I hope that helps,
Eric

[piemfo]

Hi and thanks - it surelly helps !

I personnaly prefer rosewood to mahogany - that's the reason of my three choices, the thing I wonder is the difference in soundings beyond the cosmetics aspects... which are also very important 

The 456ce FLTD seems to be a real bargain, as it shares woods and bracing (sound ?) with the 856... but i'm beginning to prefer the 756 esthetics, but it's hard to find some review on it - is it an unloved ?

To be continued..!

[Jersey tuning]

I would seriously consider a Koa 12-string.  The one's I've played at Taylor roadshows have blown me away and usually get scoopoed up by buyers within minutes.  It's certainly on my short list of future Taylor purchases.

[Jersey tuning]

Taylor has been tweaking the 700 series for years to make it more popular;  it is clearly the poor sister of the highly popular 800 series.  The newest esthetic changes have given the 700 a new vibe, but the 800's will probably be a better investment for resale, if you need to go in that direction.

I still recommend you try Koa before making a decision.

[piemfo]

Hi 

When you speak about the "poor sister", is it in term of sound or just esthetics ?

I'd really like to try the koa, but here in paris it is impossible... no store has more then 1 or 2 12 strings in stock, they say they have not enough clients for them...

And it is an upper budget, i'll be afraid to make a blind buy 

[sojiro]

Several months ago I got an incredible deal on a new, older GS 8 12 string from 2011. Beautiful guitar with gold tuners, abalone rosette and gloss finish. (Sitka and rosewood.)

But I didn't like the way it sounded, maybe because it had been sitting in a warehouse for several years. So I returned it.

When the 456 Fall Ltd was announced, I jumped on that and now have it. It's an incredible sounding guitar and I love the way it plays. I'm not crazy about the satin finish on the back and sides, but I can live with it because everything else about the guitar is just right.

So in the end, I returned the much prettier guitar for a much plainer guitar that sounded better to me.

Note: In the summer I played one 856 model (sitka/spruce GS 800 series appointments) that sounded equally nice as my 456 LTD, but it cost almost $1000 more than what I paid, mostly because of all that extra bling. So it IS possible to have a really pretty guitar that sounds great, but if budget is important to you, the 456 LTD is a great option.

[PureTone]

Hi 

When you speak about the "poor sister", is it in term of sound or just esthetics ?

I'd really like to try the koa, but here in paris it is impossible... no store has more then 1 or 2 12 strings in stock, they say they have not enough clients for them...

And it is an upper budget, i'll be afraid to make a blind buy 

The pricing structure of the numbered Series, low-to-high, is 300, 400, 500, 700, 600, 800, 900. The 700 Series has been the 'standard-entry' Rosewood guitar (not including 400LTD models). These, and the 500 Series, were made for a request from a distributor Taylor was dealing with at the time (the contract didn't last long). The 800 Series was the original Rosewood model and the 900s the 'deluxe'. Standard top woods used to be different between the 3 Rosewood series, but they are now all Sitka. The 12 string bracing pattern is the same for all 3, but the 6 string bracing is different on the 700s.
The 800 Series (814CE) is probably one of the most recognizable Taylor models and with the 700 Series (and 500s) under going appointment changes over the past several years now resemble a guitar that might have been made in the 40s. The 700 Series with Vintageburst top and Ivoroid binding probably stands out 'on-stage' as much as Taylor's 600 (Performer's) Series. The 400 Series has been labeled 'the workhorse' and LTD models have provided wood and bracing combinations usually only available on the more expensive models or custom orders (the blue collar 'working-man's' guitar). Take it busking, to a beer joint or one of the more 'spirited' open mic venues, get a character mark or two on it and go on (a tool, 'takes a lickin', keeps on tickin').
Tone-wise, the 456, 756 & 856 should sound similar, the woods are graded for aesthetics (not particularly for potential tone) and the appointments get more intricate as the price goes up. The 456 would give you the appointments closest to the Martin, but with satin finish back and sides and that Taylor neck. If this guitar is going to be your 'main player' and not playing second fiddle to a 6 string(s) and the intention is for it to be a 'forever' model. I would probably lean toward the 756 or the 856, but I would try to compare the tone to a 456.  You may find that 'less-is-more'. Personally, I've the preferred the tone of 400 and 700s over 800s and 900s, overall.
Good luck on your search and keep us updated.

[piemfo]

  thanks for those complete informations...

This will be a one-life-guitar, that´s exactly the center of the dilemma : what quantity of ´bling´ do i need not to be frustrated...

I have to say that the apparition of the LTD has transformed a cosmetic hesitation in a struggle between dream and reason 

Thanks sojiro for the feedback, and puretone for the exhaustive descrption - it helps a lot, and confirm my impressions...

I keep on thinking 

[PureTone]

You could let the guitar that sounds the best to you be your guide. The appointments of the 456 are about identical to your D12-28. The standard 756 has more of a Vintage vibe with the sunburst, but with the optional natural finish, it would look very similar to the 456, minus the gloss finish, fretboard inlays and headstock binding. The 856 is closer to the discontinued D40, with Abalone rosette, more intricate inlays and flamed Maple binding.
If they all sound similar to you, it's a difference of finish, inlays, binding ... and $. Chances are you would probably enjoy any one of them, which unfortunately may not make the decision any easier.
You could put up a poll (let me know if you need some help with that) to see what folks around here would choose, but we're not you and buying a guitar based on the popular vote may not be the best way to go.
Not meaning to throw an additional wrench into the works, but if you can find a 566CE to try, I'd suggest doing that before ruling it out completely. Sure, it's all Mahogany (top, back and sides), but the 'breathiness' may be a good complement to the extra strings. The appointments are very similar to the 756, minus the sunburst and the $ is about right in-between the 4 & 7. I couldn't find a 12 string sample, but these might be a little better than nothing.

528E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxHDyFEdFM8
918E (bone nut and saddle)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ4mSm9alvQ

[MB]

Several months ago I got an incredible deal on a new, older GS 8 12 string from 2011. Beautiful guitar with gold tuners, abalone rosette and gloss finish. (Sitka and rosewood.)

But I didn't like the way it sounded, maybe because it had been sitting in a warehouse for several years. So I returned it.

When the 456 Fall Ltd was announced, I jumped on that and now have it. It's an incredible sounding guitar and I love the way it plays. I'm not crazy about the satin finish on the back and sides, but I can live with it because everything else about the guitar is just right.

So in the end, I returned the much prettier guitar for a much plainer guitar that sounded better to me.

Note: In the summer I played one 856 model (sitka/spruce GS 800 series appointments) that sounded equally nice as my 456 LTD, but it cost almost $1000 more than what I paid, mostly because of all that extra bling. So it IS possible to have a really pretty guitar that sounds great, but if budget is important to you, the 456 LTD is a great option.

So how do you like the low end on the 456 LTD? My only worry is that the low end will be weak. Your thoughts?

[piemfo]

You could let the guitar that sounds the best to you be your guide. The appointments of the 456 are about identical to your D12-28. The standard 756 has more of a Vintage vibe with the sunburst, but with the optional natural finish, it would look very similar to the 456, minus the gloss finish, fretboard inlays and headstock binding. The 856 is closer to the discontinued D40, with Abalone rosette, more intricate inlays and flamed Maple binding.
If they all sound similar to you, it's a difference of finish, inlays, binding ... and $. Chances are you would probably enjoy any one of them, which unfortunately may not make the decision any easier.
You could put up a poll (let me know if you need some help with that) to see what folks around here would choose, but we're not you and buying a guitar based on the popular vote may not be the best way to go.
Not meaning to throw an additional wrench into the works, but if you can find a 566CE to try, I'd suggest doing that before ruling it out completely. Sure, it's all Mahogany (top, back and sides), but the 'breathiness' may be a good complement to the extra strings. The appointments are very similar to the 756, minus the sunburst and the $ is about right in-between the 4 & 7. I couldn't find a 12 string sample, but these might be a little better than nothing.

528E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxHDyFEdFM8
918E (bone nut and saddle)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ4mSm9alvQ

Thanks for the samples - the 528 sounds very great, i'm beginning to doubt, but i won't find one near i guess...

But since i am wondering if the 556 could not be an alternative  ... i thought i had stopped with mahogany, you bring it back... That's never ending !

And it is so hard to choose without trying them at the same time...

[stepchildusmc]

well then Piemfo, you'll just have to schedule a vacation here in the States someday. there are some incredible music shops here that have a great selection of Taylors. take a look at LA Guitars website. they have some real stunners and can record some samples of them for you. i know its not the same as getting to play them yourself but it IS better than nothing Mon ami.

[piemfo]

I will come (back) to the USA, but as i have to carry à family, it is not that cheap and easy, and i want the guitar before 

I think i'll soon go on for the 856, it seems it can't be a awful mistake...

[sojiro]

So how do you like the low end on the 456 LTD? My only worry is that the low end will be weak. Your thoughts?
[/quote]

Low end is great. I also have a 422 12 string (spruce/pau ferro dread shaped) special ed from the 90s, and the 456 LTD absolutely surpasses the 422-12 in overall tone, low end, and sustain. The GS really is, IMO, the best shape for a Taylor 12 string.