Author Topic: OOO vs. OO for Fingerstyle  (Read 9002 times)

Gary-N-LA

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OOO vs. OO for Fingerstyle
« on: March 09, 2014, 05:51:31 PM »
I've heard the OOO referred to as the ultimate fingerstyle guitar, but wondered if its longer scale - 25.375 versus a typical OO's 24.9" scale - might make it a bit less fingerstyle friendly, as the shorter scale might be easier to play for many of us.  Thoughts?
2014 Santa Cruz 1929-00 - All Mahogany
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Jersey tuning

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Re: OOO vs. OO for Fingerstyle
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2014, 11:11:49 PM »
Taylor GC's, which are short scale, are essentially 000 sized. Maybe a perfect compromise for you.
 :-*
Ps my Froggy Bottom "C", a 00-sized guitar, IS the perfect fingerstyle guitar.
CURRENTLY PLAYING

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'97 Tacoma PK-30 Sitka/koa
'99 Alhambra 11C classical cedar/EIR
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'11 TAYLOR BTO GC 12-fret sinker/EIR.  
'14 Alvarez Baritone Sitka/Mahogany
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guitarsrsoawesome

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Re: OOO vs. OO for Fingerstyle
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2014, 11:47:37 PM »
I have a OOO-15sm 12 fret that is 25.4 scale length but due to the slot head feels like butter and is great for finger style. Since the guitar  is all hog it sounds very smokey/dark, so I can get away with custom lights which also contributes to the easy playability.  A good setup makes a difference, too...

I actually tried OO version of the 15 (not slothead, 14 fret), but it sounded anemic in comparison with regard to volume, bass, power, etc.  Because the martin 12 frets have elongated bodies to meet the neck at the 12 fret, you get a much louder guitar, so that's part of it, too.  I think OOO is definintely the way to go if you want a more full sounding experience.
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Earl

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Re: OOO vs. OO for Fingerstyle
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2014, 11:55:10 PM »
I don't think you can make a general statement either way.  it is less about guitar body size than the neck width, scale length, and string spacing back at the bridge.  It also depends on the size of your arms, hands, and fingers.  Most finger style players prefer a 1-3/4" neck width, and wider string spacing at the bridge to leave more room for the picking fingers.  However, plenty of really good finger style players deviate from these parameters.  If you a smaller person or have short arms, you might find it more comfortable to reach around a OO size body than the slightly wider OOO size.  Smaller bodies will sit lower on the leg, effectively making the centerline of the guitar seem lower and (probably) feel more comfortable.  Sound factors into the equation too, as both bodies will have a different characteristic sound.  Having a great set up will also make a big difference in comfort level, maybe as much or more than some of the neck / scale dimensions.

Having said all of that I am primarily a finger style player, with some rhythm strumming on the side, and almost all of my guitars these days are OOO sized.  While I started on a dreadnought with 1-11/16" neck years ago, my aging right shoulder now prefers the smaller body sizes and I have grown to prefer wider 1-3/4" neck widths.  The best scale length is more a function of comfort for YOUR hands and your reach.  My 54 year old hands are starting to get arthritic and prefer shorter scale lengths now too, so i have some long term interest in 24.9" or even a bit less.
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*Gone but not forgotten:  a 2001 414ce, 410, 354-LTD twelve string, 314-N, 416-LTD baritone, T5 Classic, 615ce, 2006 GS-K, 1996 (first year) Baby

Jersey tuning

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Re: OOO vs. OO for Fingerstyle
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2014, 01:52:51 PM »
Checked out Froggy Bottom's website.  Their "concert", or 00-sized models, are intended primarily for fingerstyle. Their "grand concert", or 000 sized 14-fret guitars, are intended for all-around use, including fingerstyle.  Their 000-sized 12-fret guitars with shorter scale than the 14-fret are intended more for fingerstyle use.

Different luthiers will have different concepts of construction and intended use.  The aforementioned is one luthier's opinion.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 02:16:43 PM by Jersey tuning »
CURRENTLY PLAYING

'30 Martin 2-17 solid Mahogany
'97 Tacoma PK-30 Sitka/koa
'99 Alhambra 11C classical cedar/EIR
'05 TAYLOR 614ce 
'07 Breedlove Atlas 12-string Sitka/Mahogany
'10 Froggy Bottom "C" Adi/Brazilian   
'11 TAYLOR BTO GC 12-fret sinker/EIR.  
'14 Alvarez Baritone Sitka/Mahogany
'18 Cordoba hybrid Flamenco Euro Spruce/Ziricote
'23 M. Colbert Baritone Alaskan Sitka/Black Limba multiscale with Manzer wedge

michaelw

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Re: OOO vs. OO for Fingerstyle
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2014, 12:42:09 PM »
i find some designations companies use a bit confusing -
santa cruz uses "OOO" (orchestra, orchestra, orchestra ???), rather than "000" (triple aught)
https://www.santacruzguitar.com/instruments/ooo-model/

not all 000 are 12 frets
http://www.martinguitar.com/model/item/138-000-15m.html

there are some 12 fretters
http://www.martinguitar.com/model/item/178-000-15sm.html

a 00 body is generally smaller than a 000
http://www.martinguitar.com/model/item/188-00-15m.html
http://www.martinguitar.com/featuresmaterials/featuresmaterials/sizetype.html

not unlike the way string manufacturers use light, medium & heavy within their own lines, it would make more sense, to me
if the names correlated closer to the gauges being used, especially with acoustic strings, such as extra light .010 - .047,
custom light .011 - .052, light .012 -.053/4, medium light (bluegrass) .012 -.056, medium .013 - .056 & heavy .014 - .058/9
I've heard the OOO referred to as the ultimate fingerstyle guitar, but wondered if its longer scale - 25.375 versus a typical OO's 24.9" scale - might make it a bit less fingerstyle friendly, as the shorter scale might be easier to play for many of us.  Thoughts?
i see a OOO in your sig :-\
what's your take on it ???
it's not about what you play,
it's all about why you play ...

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Jersey tuning

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Re: OOO vs. OO for Fingerstyle
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2014, 02:19:58 PM »
I believe Martin OM's are identical to 000's.  They went to OM designation when they went 14-fret in 1932 or 1933.
CURRENTLY PLAYING

'30 Martin 2-17 solid Mahogany
'97 Tacoma PK-30 Sitka/koa
'99 Alhambra 11C classical cedar/EIR
'05 TAYLOR 614ce 
'07 Breedlove Atlas 12-string Sitka/Mahogany
'10 Froggy Bottom "C" Adi/Brazilian   
'11 TAYLOR BTO GC 12-fret sinker/EIR.  
'14 Alvarez Baritone Sitka/Mahogany
'18 Cordoba hybrid Flamenco Euro Spruce/Ziricote
'23 M. Colbert Baritone Alaskan Sitka/Black Limba multiscale with Manzer wedge

michaelw

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Re: OOO vs. OO for Fingerstyle
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2014, 09:30:30 PM »
I believe Martin OM's are identical to 000's.  They went to OM designation when they went 14-fret in 1932 or 1933.
the body dimensions are listed as being the same, but the standard
series 14 fret 000s seem to have a 24.9" scale & the OMs are 25.4" -
why not just have one model, with a scale length option ???
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Jersey tuning

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Re: OOO vs. OO for Fingerstyle
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2014, 09:00:56 AM »
I believe Martin OM's are identical to 000's.  They went to OM designation when they went 14-fret in 1932 or 1933.
the body dimensions are listed as being the same, but the standard
series 14 fret 000s seem to have a 24.9" scale & the OMs are 25.4" -
why not just have one model, with a scale length option ???

They've been messing around with the 000/OM designation since the '30s, sometimes with contradictory results.  Plus they take pride in having as many models as possible, or as CFM IV says, "models for every taste and playing style".  Taylor of course has consolidated its nomenclature.
CURRENTLY PLAYING

'30 Martin 2-17 solid Mahogany
'97 Tacoma PK-30 Sitka/koa
'99 Alhambra 11C classical cedar/EIR
'05 TAYLOR 614ce 
'07 Breedlove Atlas 12-string Sitka/Mahogany
'10 Froggy Bottom "C" Adi/Brazilian   
'11 TAYLOR BTO GC 12-fret sinker/EIR.  
'14 Alvarez Baritone Sitka/Mahogany
'18 Cordoba hybrid Flamenco Euro Spruce/Ziricote
'23 M. Colbert Baritone Alaskan Sitka/Black Limba multiscale with Manzer wedge

guitarsrsoawesome

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Re: OOO vs. OO for Fingerstyle
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2014, 09:19:33 AM »
I thought the om's also had forward shifted bracing?
November 2013 Taylor 514ce ES2
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Jersey tuning

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Re: OOO vs. OO for Fingerstyle
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2014, 10:29:33 AM »
I thought the om's also had forward shifted bracing?

That might be so now.  But Martin's jumping back and forth with nomenclature goes back to the 1930's, when there was only one kind of bracing, ie. scalloped X braced  Adirondack spruce.  They probably have a precise definition now for Martin 000 sized instruments constructed in the second decade of the 21st century.  Could change next decade.  Not surprising for a 180 year old company.  Plus the next Martin CEO is likely to be a woman, if Chris Martin can last another 20 years or so.
CURRENTLY PLAYING

'30 Martin 2-17 solid Mahogany
'97 Tacoma PK-30 Sitka/koa
'99 Alhambra 11C classical cedar/EIR
'05 TAYLOR 614ce 
'07 Breedlove Atlas 12-string Sitka/Mahogany
'10 Froggy Bottom "C" Adi/Brazilian   
'11 TAYLOR BTO GC 12-fret sinker/EIR.  
'14 Alvarez Baritone Sitka/Mahogany
'18 Cordoba hybrid Flamenco Euro Spruce/Ziricote
'23 M. Colbert Baritone Alaskan Sitka/Black Limba multiscale with Manzer wedge

83SanDimas

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Re: OOO vs. OO for Fingerstyle
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2014, 11:00:53 PM »
Martin Guitars... An OM-42 vs 000-42 the 000!also has thicker blacking, the OMs are lighter braced.  Different models have different bracing patterns. 000 are usually always shorter scale but I do think there are exceptions. I do believe they are all heavier braced.

000 also come in a slope shoulder style that feels more parlor like. That is the model the Martin road show rep told me is his favorite finger style. Smaller than the OM/standard 000 but deeper sounding than 00/0.


83SanDimas

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Re: OOO vs. OO for Fingerstyle
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2014, 11:16:02 PM »
I have an OM-42 and OM-42 koan I was obsessed with the OMs and they are great guitars but I don't think even Mrtin would argue they are the best finger stlye guitars. The other smaller body shorter scale 12 fret  Martins seemed better for pure finger style for me, but maybe not for everyone.

The 912 is a little more comfortable in my lap than a full 000 or OM and I do like the shorter scale. 

I picked up a Blueridge BR-371 and it is 0 size, short scale and 1 7/8 neck. I love the body size and it's volume would surprise you. They make a 361 with less bling and a 341 hog. I recommend them for a parlour guitar. So many other brands and styles to try...