NT Neck shims?

[cpugsie]

Anyone know if the NT necks shims are available for purchase anywhere? I like the action on my acoustics lower than most and have a shaved bridge saddle to accomplish this. I'd like to reset the neck and use the saddle that came with the guitar. I also enjoy working on my own instruments. I haven't called Taylor yet but I'm sure they are going to tell me to take it to a tech. Anyone??

[Earl]

Good question.  I suspect that when you call, Taylor will say "shims are available only to certified techs" because they don't want ham-fisted owners messing up the neck set, metal screw inserts, etc.  They stopped shipping truss rod wrenches with each guitar a few years ago for that reason.  Last I knew the cost of a neck reset was pretty minimal.  Many people could use a set of summer (thinner) shims for damp weather, and a thicker set of winter shims for dry conditions.  I know people that have both summer and winter saddles, for example.

There is probably no real reason that you could not remove and lightly sand *your* shims down to achieve what you want.  Go slowly and carefully a few strokes at a time with 240 grit sandpaper or even finer.  Worst case, you ruin those shims and have to pay for replacements with a neck reset by a certified tech.  If you ever take your guitar to a tech for adjustment, be sure to tell them that your shims are no longer stock.  Otherwise they will see 0.009" (for example) stamped on the shim and replace it with the next larger size, not realizing that you need the same shim - unmodified - to get back to the original set-up.

[michaelw]

There is probably no real reason that you could not remove and lightly sand *your* shims down to achieve what you want.  Go slowly and carefully a few strokes at a time with 240 grit sandpaper or even finer.  Worst case, you ruin those shims and have to pay for replacements with a neck reset by a certified tech.  If you ever take your guitar to a tech for adjustment, be sure to tell them that your shims are no longer stock.  Otherwise they will see 0.009" (for example) stamped on the shim and replace it with the next larger size, not realizing that you need the same shim - unmodified - to get back to the original set-up.

as a tech, automotive & guitar, one of the things i dread the most is having
to fix what someone else has made worse than if they'd left it alone
when they thought something was wrong/broke or needed adjustment -
it inevitably will cost more to have repair done to correct not only the original
concern, but whatever else may have happened in a previous repair "attempt"

i've seen examples of incorrectly set NT necks by people that had no business
near a set of nut drivers, much less wrenching on a guitar that costs $XXXXs

the NT neck shims vary by .002" thousandths (even #s only) &
with each value, increases of decreases the neck angle by .039 degrees
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2XnmKePcUE#t=138

if .006" is the thickness of 2 sheets of notebook paper,
then .002" is about 2/3 the thickness of one sheet -
do you think it's possible to accurately & evenly sand that little off of the end of
a shim, match up the other shim so the neck seats in the pocket correctly &, more
importantly, when the bolts are reinstalled, torqued & strings retuned to pitch

if you're just "guessing", removing & reinstalling the neck multiple times is likely to put undue
wear & tear on things & if the neck is not seated correctly & the bolts are torqued down, then
you run the very real chance of possibly causing damage to the neck pocket or paddle

.006" is the pre-load value for the NT neck & the combination of shims have a difference of -6
0 on the fretboard extension, -6 on the heel, 2 on the extension, -4 on the heel
6 on the extension, 0 on the heel, etc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFVLRu9Np3w#t=312

if you feel comfortable in performing a process like this &
the guitar was purchased used (with no warranty), have at it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFVLRu9Np3w#t=801

probably about the only DIY'er i'd trust to do something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Q6lJCh-1U

the NT shim sets aren't available through the TaylorWare store &
i doubt that an authorized repair would be willing to release an
entire set of shims, but Taylor is closed this week for summer break -
i'd try calling Customer Service on the & 7th & see what they say

[wooglins]

There is probably no real reason that you could not remove and lightly sand *your* shims down to achieve what you want.  Go slowly and carefully a few strokes at a time with 240 grit sandpaper or even finer.  Worst case, you ruin those shims and have to pay for replacements with a neck reset by a certified tech.  If you ever take your guitar to a tech for adjustment, be sure to tell them that your shims are no longer stock.  Otherwise they will see 0.009" (for example) stamped on the shim and replace it with the next larger size, not realizing that you need the same shim - unmodified - to get back to the original set-up.

as a tech, automotive & guitar, one of the things i dread the most is having
to fix what someone else has made worse than if they'd left it alone
when they thought something was wrong/broke or needed adjustment -
it inevitably will cost more to have repair done to correct not only the original
concern, but whatever else may have happened in a previous repair "attempt"

i've seen examples of incorrectly set NT necks by people that had no business
near a set of nut drivers, much less wrenching on a guitar that costs $XXXXs

the NT neck shims vary by .002" thousandths (even #s only) &
with each value, increases of decreases the neck angle by .039 degrees
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2XnmKePcUE#t=138

if .006" is the thickness of 2 sheets of notebook paper,
then .002" is about 2/3 the thickness of one sheet -
do you think it's possible to accurately & evenly sand that little off of the end of
a shim, match up the other shim so the neck seats in the pocket correctly &, more
importantly, when the bolts are reinstalled, torqued & strings retuned to pitch

if you're just "guessing", removing & reinstalling the neck multiple times is likely to put undue
wear & tear on things & if the neck is not seated correctly & the bolts are torqued down, then
you run the very real chance of possibly causing damage to the neck pocket or paddle

.006" is the pre-load value for the NT neck & the combination of shims have a difference of -6
0 on the fretboard extension, -6 on the heel, 2 on the extension, -4 on the heel
6 on the extension, 0 on the heel, etc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFVLRu9Np3w#t=312

if you feel comfortable in performing a process like this &
the guitar was purchased used (with no warranty), have at it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFVLRu9Np3w#t=801

probably about the only DIY'er i'd trust to do something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Q6lJCh-1U
the NT shim sets aren't available through the TaylorWare store &
i doubt that an authorized repair would be willing to release an
entire set of shims, but Taylor is closed this week for summer break -
i'd try calling Customer Service on the & 7th & see what they say

If you call Taylor you can nicely persuade them into selling you a full set.  They are not to hard to work with the biggest problem is only authorized technicians have access to the sticker that covers up one of the bolts.

[cpugsie]

Thanks for the replies so far. I would never just try and sand the shims I have! I work in the aerospace industry and know how accurate things need to be to work correctly with one another. I would have no doubts about putting in a matched set of shims to attain the desired result myself if I were to have an official set of shims. However, obtaining them will be the problem. I'm not trying to avoid the cost of a reset because I'm cheap, I really like working on my own instruments and have the experience to do it. The guitar is a new 812e so if it means voiding the warranty I'll most likely have an official Taylor repair center take care of it. It's playing like I want it to with the shaved bridge but there's not much down pressure on the bridge now and I think it's changed the sound somewhat. I'm still getting used to the guitar and need to go through a couple string changes with the old and new bridge saddle before I make any real assessment.

[Herb Hunter]

In the first year that the Big Baby became available I bought one and my guitar repairman determined that it required a different shim. He suggested that I obtain a set of shims from Taylor. I asked Taylor for a set, explaining why, and within a few days I received the shims.

[michaelw]

...The guitar is a new 812e so if it means voiding the warranty I'll most likely have an official Taylor repair center take care of it. It's playing like I want it to with the shaved bridge but there's not much down pressure on the bridge now and I think it's changed the sound somewhat. I'm still getting used to the guitar and need to go through a couple string changes with the old and new bridge saddle before I make any real assessment.

if it required taking the saddle down, in order to get the action to within factory specs of
6/64" E & 4/64" at .010" or under neck relief to the point to where the change in break
angle affected the tone, then i imagine a reset would be covered, since it's a new guitar -
the current 800s, 320 & 400LTDs i've seen had a "more comfortable" setup with the micarta saddle than
many of the pre-14 models with Tusq saddles, much closer to the models with the wave compensated
bone saddles & the playability out-of-the-box more reminiscent of models that were made 10 years ago

was it a relatively straight-forward process to rebalance the ES2 after removing & reinstalling the saddle, with
pretty much "no muss, no fuss" or was it a rather finicky affair, requiring many fine "tweaks" to dial it back in

[cpugsie]

Great question! I don't know yet!! Knowing I was going to remove the bridge I called Taylor for info on re-torquing the piezoelectric sensors. They said there is no specific torque that its all done by hand. No torque wrench. I just backed each one off by two complete turns and did the same going back in. Haven't played it electrically yet. Ill report back. Taylor said that tighter makes is less volume but more sensitive where looser make it louder but less sensitive. I may have that backwards?? Ill report back with that also. I'm sure this is why there are different opinions on the ES2!

[michaelw]

Great question! I don't know yet is my answer. Knowing I was going to remove the bridge I called Taylor for info on re-torquing the piezoelectric sensors. They said there is no specific torque that its all done by hand. No torque wrench. I just backed each one off by two complete turns and did the same going back in. Haven't played it electrically yet. Ill report back. Taylor said that tighter makes is less volume but more sensitive where looser make it louder but less sensitive. I may have that backwards?? Ill report back with that also.

i was just wondering if it was a simple matter of setting the screws back in
pretty much  the original position after the saddle was reinstalled to restore
the balance of the pickup response to it's former level, pre-saddle adjustments

i don't imagine it'd require a spectrum analyzer app, just a good ear & a little time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaSlSztC1aI#t=152

In the first year that the Big Baby became available I bought one and my guitar repairman determined that it required a different shim. He suggested that I obtain a set of shims from Taylor. I asked Taylor for a set, explaining why, and within a few days I received the shims.

the shim set for the BBT is quite different, in that there is only
a fretboard extension shim that alters both the pitch & depth -
if i remember correctly, a NT neck shim set compromises of
a total of around 50 different ones (fretboard extension & heel)

i could see possibly requesting, or trying a purchase, a partial shim set,
based on amount that the saddle needed to be taken down, the relationship
of the fretboard to the bridge with minimal neck relief, the string height
when the saddle is/was at original height to restore the tone of the guitar &
the existing shim set, it should be possible to determine what adjustments
would need to be addressed &, within a more defined range, which shims