Counterfeit Taylors

[duckhorns]

Driving to work this morning I gave this some more thought, more specifically, how Taylor could stop this. First, having been to China on business many times, I have seen several things to stop counterfeiting and the dirtbags just add those measures too. For example, the anti-counterfeit holograms, bar codes, etal.  They just copy them perfectly.  Radio frequency tag... would never work.  How would Taylor get a RFID scanner to every guitar shop and pawn shop in the country?  Plus RFID is cheap, they would just add them.  Here is what I came up with, a cheap, easy solution that all owners of real Taylors can get behind: all guitars have a "fingerprint" in that their wood patterns are unique.  Taylor should start an area on their website where anyone can go, store owners, individuals, everyone, and enter the serial number.  Up would pop close up photos of the face, back, sides, and neck of that particular guitar for sale so the buyer could compare the grain patterns and inlays visually.  There would be no way possible, the Chinese counterfeits could beat that even with paint.  It would be extremely cheap for Taylor to implement. Basically they need a person to take photos and upload them.  It would be unique in the industry, would generate a lot of buzz,  and would be a real value added feature for customers to make sure they get a genuine Taylor.  What about guitars made prior to implementing this website feature and production photos?  Taylor has a loyal fanbase that would really appreciate the opportunity to upload their own pictures of the ones they own and have registered prior to this new program.  The customers would want to do this because Taylor guitars in the aftermarket are going to get hit the hardest price wise if counterfeits become a problem and the Taylor name is diminished.  It would bring the community together and would be a win-win for everyone.  It would be easy for Taylor to get the word out to registered owners and would allow the company to do something positive and touch base with their customers.

If Taylor execs read this and like the idea feel free to send me a consulting gift for the help.  My daughter has confiscated the gs mini koa I bought myself and has not emerged from her room in weeks.  I miss her.  Not my daughter, my koa gs mini...  I seriously only got to play it for about 1 hour, after spending months looking until I found my perfect one.  So here is my wish list: any old gs mini koa lying around the factory unloved, a  neck and headstock for a gs mini (I want to try inlay work and want to do it on a detached neck, have my search going on the Bay, but none for sale yet from any broken minis... come on drunk people!!! accidentally fall on your minis and break them!!!), a clear pickguard (I bought the black Taylor one but the koa is too pretty to be covered up), a loose mother of pearl Taylor logo inlay for a headstock (when I get another koa gs mini that plastic headstock overlay is history and I want to inlay the Taylor logo myself onto a nice piece of koa overlay.)  Don't make me make my own counterfeit mother of pearl Taylor logo!  Sell me one!

[Kmeister]

My understanding of the RFIDs that Gibson installs is that they can only be read by the factory.... Meaning it's otherwise jibberish if you scan but can't decode it. And it's only in newer models, which is why the Chinese are now doing their best to start copying older vintage Gibsons to pass off......

I like your wood fingerprint idea, but I wonder how hard it would be to implement when you make hundreds of guitars a day.

[michaelw]

Taylor has been using RFID tags for over the past 10 years, but
as kristen has mentioned, there needs to be a scanner available
that will be able to read the information, not unlike a pet microchip -
there have some more convincing counterfeits that i've seen pics of
(916ce), but the EQ knobs are usually the b band a11 looking ones
http://www.b-band.com/index.php?mact=Products,cntnt01,details,0&cntnt01hierarchyid=5&cntnt01productid=11&cntnt01returnid=151

the counterfeiters have come a long way since
the bogus 710s that were modded ibanez v70s

[Kmeister]

Taylor has been using RFID tags for over the past 10 years, but
as kristen has mentioned, there needs to be a scanner available
that will be able to read the information, not unlike a pet microchip -
there have some more convincing counterfeits that i've seen pics of
(916ce), but the EQ knobs are usually the b band a11 looking ones
http://www.b-band.com/index.php?mact=Products,cntnt01,details,0&cntnt01hierarchyid=5&cntnt01productid=11&cntnt01returnid=151

the counterfeiters have come a long way since
the bogus 710s that were modded ibanez v70s

Wait, taylor also uses RFID? I have never heard that. Now I want to scan my guitar! MRI maybe? 

[Maple422]

Here the RFID in my 614e Prototype. Found it when triyng to get a good photo of the info written inside the top, which you can see part of. I understand that there is one in the neck, glued under the fingerboard, that the use to match bodies and neck together during assembly. Want to make sure the right neck goes on the right body. I guess it could be used to ID a fake Taylor.

[Guitarsan]

Here the RFID in my 614e Prototype. Found it when triyng to get a good photo of the info written inside the top, which you can see part of. I understand that there is one in the neck, glued under the fingerboard, that the use to match bodies and neck together during assembly. Want to make sure the right neck goes on the right body. I guess it could be used to ID a fake Taylor.

OK, so exactly how did you take the photo? 

[Maple422]

OK, so exactly how did you take the photo? 

Strings off, I my iPhone went in, and I used the headphone switch as a remote trigger.

See www.unofficialtaylorguitarforum.com/index.php?topic=5273.16;msg=58162

[Kmeister]

Fascinating. Wonder if you can scan them after they leave the factory and get some info about the construction process..... If you could read Taylor's database.

We should get the North Koreans to look into it..... ;-)

[MDS08]

I have seen a few of the fake Martin and one of the Taylor guitars. I must say I thought they were real until I was told they were fake Chinese copies. I agree this is so wrong to see these coming into the US. I did not get to play the Taylor but I did try out a few of the Martins. I tried the D28 and D45. I looked them over real good. They looked pretty good and for about 350 bucks and a case it seemed like a good deal. I would not ever buy a fake copy of even promote them. Its just illegal and out right wrong! On the other hand they sounded pretty good, I thought they were better than the Recording Kings that I have tried and was somewhat impressed. I will leave it at that. 

[Earl]

Fascinating. Wonder if you can scan them after they leave the factory and get some info about the construction process..... If you could read Taylor's database.

Even if they put RFID tags in the guitars, I doubt they would take the trouble to put the data from the work order on it.  And I'm not even sure it would fit (freely admitting that I am not up to speed on RFID tags).  My guess is that it would simply have the serial number and maybe some other bit of confirming information, but not much else.

[BobSol]

 In the UK we have The Trading Standards Office which is basically an authority which reacts to complaints by the public about counterfeit goods and have the power to seize goods, investigate the complaint and put offenders into the courts and put them out of business. They are becoming very effective at recovering lost tax revenue. A common deterrent is "Smartwater", a liquid with unique DNA properties easily and cheaply applied, impossible to detect or forge. Used universally to prove ownership of parts recovered from stolen and broken down motorcycles. Costs pennies, easily scanned and compared against a database of  original verification details, think Vin number on a vehicle. No problem to apply by owners or dealers. The importers would think twice about getting involved in such easily detectable scams. Of course it would rely on your law enforcement authorities to do the right thing to protect American jobs. 

[Jopal]

Duckhorns, Woodgrain photos for authentification is genius . It may just involve a detailed photo of the back wood especially with rosewood and highly figured woods. Some mahoganys may require additional detailed photos but again that is genius and can't involve much at Taylor's end. I didn't even realize that Taylor's were being cloned. That makes me a bit nervous as I just purchased 3 high end Taylor's. I will look for the inner markings for sure. 614CE 714CE & 814CE. Taylor should incorporate your idea and send you a Tee Shirt. LOL, Jopal

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[Gordo in OZ]

They are generally rubbish. Its sad that these things exist and annoying that they make the business of buying online or from non-dealers less than fun.

[Bernie]

In case this has not been pointed out yet, you wouldn't get a thing most likely as free shipping for a $XXX guitar just never happens...It would cost a minimal $XXX or close to send a single guitar from China, and therefore would leave not even $XXX for the guitar itself...Enough for a hardshell case maybe...

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[cassidy9914]

Is that what that is... I was wondering what those were. Saw those wired gadgets and was thinking maybe something Taylor uses for scanning.