NGD, K14ce Builder’s Edition

[timfitz63]

I received my new K14ce Builder’s Edition on Friday. I placed an order as soon as Taylor announced the new V-class line through my FLGS (favorite/friendly local guitar shop)...

Very nice guitar, "Giraku!"  I believe I held your guitar before even you did -- at Empire Music's Roadshow event back on February 20th...?

I should take the opportunity to publicly thank you on behalf of everyone who attended the event for your generosity in allowing your K14ce BE to be highlighted during the event, and for allowing attendees to inspect and play your guitar first-hand (under the very strict supervision of the Empire Music staff, of course).

Giraku,

Did you also try out the updated 914ce?  If so how did you feel it compared with the builder's edition?

Unfortunately, I did not. I would love to audition V-class 914ce. But my fear is that I might want to buy one...

Given how much you like your K14ce BE, I suspect you would.  I had the opportunity to A-B a "V-Class" 914ce against a leftover 914ce-SB that Empire has, and even I could discern the differences Taylor has been talking about.

To try to answer "RyanR's" question:  regardless of the bracing scheme used, the differences between a 914ce and a K14ce just come down to the tonal properties of the woods used (specifically, Sitka paired with either EIR or Koa); the new "V-Class" bracing really doesn't affect that tonewood relationship at all (unlike the way the bracing in the new 600 Series "re-voiced" Maple).  Without getting too deeply into the physics of sound, "V-Class" bracing is probably better thought of as a technical improvement in allowing the tops to vibrate more freely and without as much destructive interference.  So if you like the way EIR sounds better than Koa, you'd probably prefer the 914ce -- and vice versa.

Beyond the tonewood influences, the specific differences between the "V-Class" 914ce and the K14ce BE come down to ergonomics:  the body of the K14ce BE is heavily beveled -- with the familiar armrest already found on the 914ce and Presentation Series guitars, plus rounded-off binding, and a nifty beveled cutaway that is carved flush with the base of the guitar neck -- as well as something Taylor is calling a "silent satin" finish.  According to what we were told by the Taylor representative at Empire Music's Roadshow event, all of these changes were introduced by Andy Powers, the Guitar Player (as opposed to Andy Powers, the Guitar Designer), simply to address some of the practical issues he's noted while playing a guitar:  the comfort level when holding a 'sharp-edged' guitar; the ease with which the higher frets can be smoothly accessed (the Taylor rep noted that the Builder's Edition cutaway would allow someone to comfortably play all the way into the sound hole, if they were inclined to do so); as well as the way glossy finishes squeak when players get sweaty, or the way normal satin finishes make a rubbing noise against clothing.

So if you really like the ergonomics of the Builder's Edition, but aren't hot about the tone of Sitka/Koa, don't fret (pardon the pun); we were told that Taylor will be introducing future Builder's Edition guitars with different tonewood combinations, one of which may be better-suited to your ear.

[Giraku]

Very nice guitar, "Giraku!"  I believe I held your guitar before even you did -- at Empire Music's Roadshow event back on February 20th...?

I should take the opportunity to publicly thank you on behalf of everyone who attended the event for your generosity in allowing your K14ce BE to be highlighted during the event, and for allowing attendees to inspect and play your guitar first-hand (under the very strict supervision of the Empire Music staff, of course).

You are welcome, "timfitz63". I'm glad that attendees, including you, had a chance to touch/play the Builder's Edition.

Given how much you like your K14ce BE, I suspect you would.  I had the opportunity to A-B a "V-Class" 914ce against a leftover 914ce-SB that Empire has, and even I could discern the differences Taylor has been talking about.

Well, I'm worrying about my wallet. I may want to buy the entire V-class line...

[timfitz63]

Given how much you like your K14ce BE, I suspect you would.  I had the opportunity to A-B a "V-Class" 914ce against a leftover 914ce-SB that Empire has, and even I could discern the differences Taylor has been talking about.

Well, I'm worrying about my wallet. I may want to buy the entire V-class line...

Indeed!  One's wallet is always in jeopardy when they wander into a Taylor dealer's showroom...   And from what we were told at the Roadshow event, buying up the entire "V-Class" line will get quite expensive; Taylor purportedly plans to migrate the bracing scheme to all of their guitar models, 300 Series and up...  I didn't think to ask -- and the Taylor rep didn't offer -- what Taylor's plans for 12-strings are; whether they have a "V-Class" bracing scheme in the works for those models or what...?

I still maintain that I personally wouldn't replace anything I've already got with a comparable "V-Class" guitar; in fact the Taylor rep mentioned several times that Taylor wasn't trying to imply their older-model guitars sounded bad, even by comparison to a "V-Class" model -- and I would agree.  It's just that they're now offering an improved model that addresses technical shortcomings in the long-established "X-bracing" scheme.

Moving forward, I'd probably opt for a "V-Class" guitar over a comparable outgoing model; but I'm equally happy with the guitars I already own too.  My advice to the conspicuous guitar consumer is to take a deep breath before replacing a guitar that one already owns with a comparable "V-Class" model; A-B the two guitars, if possible, before trading in/up.  To paraphrase a well-known song:  you might find that you still love the one you're already with...  And your wallet will still love you too...!  As you already pointed out in another thread, if one lives down in the lower frets 95% of the time, the gains from a "V-Class" guitar won't be nearly as apparent.

[Giraku]

Moving forward, I'd probably opt for a "V-Class" guitar over a comparable outgoing model; but I'm equally happy with the guitars I already own too.  My advice to the conspicuous guitar consumer is to take a deep breath before replacing a guitar that one already owns with a comparable "V-Class" model; A-B the two guitars, if possible, before trading in/up.  To paraphrase a well-known song:  you might find that you still love the one you're already with...  And your wallet will still love you too...!  As you already pointed out in another thread, if one lives down in the lower frets 95% of the time, the gains from a "V-Class" guitar won't be nearly as apparent.

Well said, and I totally agree with you. My only problem is that I play exclusively Fingerstyle and 40 to 50% of playing is in high position. Also I really don't like any dead note (or wolf tone in violin term) because I seldom strum (or rasgueado). I play 2, 3, or 4 notes at a time with my finger nails. Slight tonal imbalance easily ruins my performance. I know how to tame dead notes, but at the same time it requires extra caution while playing. If there is no dead note, I can concentrate on music not on reducing the dead note impact to music.
With V-class bracing, the influence or magnitude of dead note (or wolf tone) is much less than the ones on traditional x bracing, to my ears. Andy also pointed this out in some of his video talking about the benefit of V-class bracing. Together with consistent volume/sustain/tonality of high position, V-class guitars are my dream acoustic guitar for my style. That's why I'm seriously thinking about replacing some of my guitars with V-class lineups.

[timfitz63]

Moving forward, I'd probably opt for a "V-Class" guitar over a comparable outgoing model; but I'm equally happy with the guitars I already own too.  My advice to the conspicuous guitar consumer is to take a deep breath before replacing a guitar that one already owns with a comparable "V-Class" model; A-B the two guitars, if possible, before trading in/up.  To paraphrase a well-known song:  you might find that you still love the one you're already with...  And your wallet will still love you too...!  As you already pointed out in another thread, if one lives down in the lower frets 95% of the time, the gains from a "V-Class" guitar won't be nearly as apparent.

Well said, and I totally agree with you. My only problem is that I play exclusively Fingerstyle and 40 to 50% of playing is in high position. Also I really don't like any dead note (or wolf tone in violin term) because I seldom strum (or rasgueado). I play 2, 3, or 4 notes at a time with my finger nails. Slight tonal imbalance easily ruins my performance. I know how to tame dead notes, but at the same time it requires extra caution while playing. If there is no dead note, I can concentrate on music not on reducing the dead note impact to music.
With V-class bracing, the influence or magnitude of dead note (or wolf tone) is much less than the ones on traditional x bracing, to my ears. Andy also pointed this out in some of his video talking about the benefit of V-class bracing. Together with consistent volume/sustain/tonality of high position, V-class guitars are my dream acoustic guitar for my style. That's why I'm seriously thinking about replacing some of my guitars with V-class lineups.

Yeah, it sounds like the "V-Class" guitars will mainly benefit players like you, so replacement might make more sense.  I guess we'll all keep watch the forum for the "Giraku" fire sale... 

My playing style is almost completely opposite of yours:  I spend most of the time strumming on the lower frets, with only occasional forays onto the higher frets -- and relatively little finger-style playing.  When I strummed the few songs I know that require playing up to the 14th fret, the tonal improvements were obvious on the "V-Class" guitar; those improvements were still discernible on the lower frets, but required me to listen more closely in order to hear them.  I'm sure a more practiced ear would hear the tonal improvements more readily -- perhaps to the point where such a player would be compelled to replace an older model with a comparable "V-Class" guitar.  Again, folks have to decide for themselves.

[RyanR]

TimFitz,

Thanks for the reply. I am in a two person group; we play at farmer’s markets and the like.  I started as a bass player but have been working hard on my 6 string playing in order to add it to our show.  I’m also working on a solo set.  I don’t want to own a lot of guitars, so for me each one counts.  In fact I only own one acoustic now (a Martin OMC 160gte).   It is a decent guitar but my playing has improved a lot and I’m ready for something that sounds nicer, especially when unplugged. 

I play a mix of finger style and pick and I do use the whole fretboard.  After trying a bunch of guitars I had just about decided on a Taylor 914 when all this v bracing came out.  I had a chance to drop by one of the Taylor showcases and try a v braced k14ce and a  914. I had never even picked up a koa guitar before.  My impressions were actually right in one with yours.  Both sounded great to me, and I could see owning a koa guitar someday, but right now the rosewood sound fits better with what I do which involves both playing and singing.

However I did really like the feel of the k14.  I had even called Taylor and they hinted that they would eventually let me buy a builders edition with rosewood. I’m glad to see you heard the same thing.

So why did I post my question?  I wanted to see if anyone else had the same impressions as me.  So thank you again for posting because you confirmed what I felt myself.  So I’ll probably wait now until Taylor lets me order the guitar I want and then I should be set for quite some time!

[timfitz63]

TimFitz,

Thanks for the reply. I am in a two person group; we play at farmer’s markets and the like.  I started as a bass player but have been working hard on my 6 string playing in order to add it to our show.  I’m also working on a solo set.  I don’t want to own a lot of guitars, so for me each one counts.  In fact I only own one acoustic now (a Martin OMC 160gte).   It is a decent guitar but my playing has improved a lot and I’m ready for something that sounds nicer, especially when unplugged. 

I play a mix of finger style and pick and I do use the whole fretboard.  After trying a bunch of guitars I had just about decided on a Taylor 914 when all this v bracing came out.  I had a chance to drop by one of the Taylor showcases and try a v braced k14ce and a  914. I had never even picked up a koa guitar before.  My impressions were actually right in one with yours.  Both sounded great to me, and I could see owning a koa guitar someday, but right now the rosewood sound fits better with what I do which involves both playing and singing.

However I did really like the feel of the k14.  I had even called Taylor and they hinted that they would eventually let me buy a builders edition with rosewood. I’m glad to see you heard the same thing.

So why did I post my question?  I wanted to see if anyone else had the same impressions as me.  So thank you again for posting because you confirmed what I felt myself.  So I’ll probably wait now until Taylor lets me order the guitar I want and then I should be set for quite some time!

My pleasure!  The impression I got from the Roadshow (although I can't recall the rep specifically saying it) was that there would be a 'new' Builder's Edition out about every six months, probably coinciding with the release of the semi-annual suite of Limiteds.  Just because of the general popularity of the tonewood combination, I'd expect Sitka/EIR to be one of the earliest Builder's Editions to be released, perhaps even next.  So you may not have long to wait!

[mgap]

My interpretation is that the V-bracing will be making its way through the Taylor line up.  This is how I heard it from dealers doing video product reviews with Taylor sales representatives.  I have not gone back to review the video I am thinking about, but I hope that is the way they plan on it.  I would like to see a 514e with V-bracing, not a Builders Edition made with Mahogany.
I can see that Taylor may have a Builders Edition line of guitars, made from all the popular tonewoods.  I would not be all that keen on the price.  I really like the key features of the new Builders Edition so, well, you never know.

[timfitz63]

My interpretation is that the V-bracing will be making its way through the Taylor line up.  This is how I heard it from dealers doing video product reviews with Taylor sales representatives.  I have not gone back to review the video I am thinking about, but I hope that is the way they plan on it.  I would like to see a 514e with V-bracing, not a Builders Edition made with Mahogany.
I can see that Taylor may have a Builders Edition line of guitars, made from all the popular tonewoods.  I would not be all that keen on the price.  I really like the key features of the new Builders Edition so, well, you never know.

That's what I heard too from the Taylor rep at the Empire Music Roadshow event as well:  that the introduction of the "V" bracing throughout the Taylor lines will be carried out smartly -- and in parallel with whatever Builder's Edition models that are released.  I seem to recall him saying that the next lines that will receive the "V" bracing would be the 800, 600, and I want to say 500 series; these lines will offer a "V" braced guitar by the end of the year.