My Taylor Guitar experience.

[Harry7139]

   Greetings I am a long time Taylor Guitar owner and I still own 4 of them. This is simply my own professional opinion only along with the reasons why I personally no longer play Taylor guitars professionally based upon my individual experiences. If there is something I may have missed about Taylor along the way, please let me know. I average about 220 solo gigs a year in three different states.  I have two systems I mainly use use - for larger gigs I use a Stagesource L3t (tri -amp 1400 watts, 10 inch sub, 10 inch mid, compression tweeters, Mackie 12 channel mixer, Zoom AC3)  and for smaller gigs I simply use a Fishman SoloAmp or Bose SP1 with the Zoom AC3. I simply cannot perform live using Taylor guitars anymore...here is my Taylor experience and why:

   I first discovered Taylor guitars back in the 80's when a friend of mine (Ken Spooner) who owned a small music store in Clearwater Florida received a couple of guitars  from a new and relatively unknown manufacturer in California ( Taylor ) and was excited to have me play and hear them. This is back when Taylor was a small company and actually still hand building guitars with no electronics. The guitars were indeed nice... but at rather steep price. I decided to stay with my trusted Tak for gigging for a few years....until I eventually was able to purchase a new Taylor 314ce. The prices were a bit more competitive now - but by now Taylor had gone to mass machine production of their guitars along with installing their own brand of electronics..

My 314 experience I would say was a bit less than average. Spending average time in the store playing it was - oh well...electric guitars blasting, terrible acoustic players..lol..you know the drill. After settling in and playing the 314 for a while at home, I began to notice it's apparent shortcomings. First, the natural overall sound of the guitar seemed much brighter and tinnier when played acoustically at home. I now noticed also that Taylor uses a slightly wider string spacing.. which is ok except that slightly narrower the neck on the guitar was made for a tighter string spacing - thereby making every pull off I did on the high e string roll right off the neck. I returned to the store and tried every other Taylor guitar they had on display - same thing. This was going to be a problem when I did my JT stuff.. My luthier installed a new nut and saddle which corrected the problem. Later it would seem Taylor cheaply tried to side step this problem by just using a heaver string guage (HD) on all their newer models which seemed to help slightly. Store wouldn't take the Taylor back so I endured with it for a short while before going back to my Tak... now for the electronics...

This Taylor 314 had the original ES system with 2 body sensors and a magnetic neck pickup.. It seemed to be xtremely hard to eq in different situations you may encounter on the road....it always sounded rather "brittle and mid range" most times. Trying to remove the offending frequencies always resulted in an even worse sound. The system finally just quit so I installed a Baggs M1a soundhole pickup and although the sound was better than original -  the Baggs pickup was way too sensitive and often presented howling feedback situations.. So I just grabbed my trusty Tak and kept on gigging - until -

I purchased a new Taylor 514ce assuming that Taylor had worked out most of the live sound issues by now. Being aware of the string spacing problem with Taylors, the first place it went was to my luthier who installed a new saddle and nut with the proper string spacing for that size neck. Problem solved....played beautifully. The "newer" ES system, which now consisted of only 1 sensor, a magnetic pickup, and a switch to deactivate the sensor - although better than the first it still struggled to sound good most of the time...at least until THAT ES system failed too! Not liking the Baggs pickup I purchased for my other Taylor 314ce I decide to purchase a Fishman Neo Humbucker pickup for 100.00 new. Best choice I EVER made. This pickup finally made my guitar sound like an actual acoustic with nice full bottom and top end - anywhere I played and was super easy to quickly dial in for sound. So I actually gigged with the 314 and 514 off and on for a while with the Fishman Neo pickups - The Taylors were being used mainly for back ups for my Tak ....until -

   I decided to pull the plug and go for the top of the line Taylor 914ce.. I have never been "defeated" by a guitar company.. lol. I  always found at least something good in every guitar...so I figured Taylor must have this right by now. Ordered a brand new Taylor 914ce with the expression system that was available in 2013. The 914 came with Elixer HD strings..with a 0.13 high e string guage..which seemed to help a little with the high e pull off situation.. This is a beautiful guitar... exquisite quality and workmanship...sounds beautiful when I play it in my living room. Plugging in was again a different story.. brittle...feedback.. here we go again. I was a little upset this time and contacted Taylor guitars in California and complained. Long story short, Taylor's EXCELLENT customer service replaced my ES system twice...and then a third time, this time installing the newest, greatest piezo system with the three little allen screws, all at no cost. As hard as Taylor tried, each time the sound became worse until I finally ripped out all the electronics and installed another Fishman Neo Humbucker in the sound hole...sounds amazing playing live now...but

As great as the Taylor sounds now with the Fishman, I still cant actually perform live with Taylor guitars anymore. They don't stay in tune (even with the Gotoh 510s) and I don't know why but my hands hurt after playing a 3 hour show. Even with 4 beautiful Taylors hanging on the wall of my studio at home ( Mini GS, 314ce 514ce, 914ce ) I regularly perform with my Yamaha L6 with a Fishman Neo Humbucker in the sound hole and Tak exclusively. Absolutely beautiful sound, my hands no longer hurt, and rarely have to tune during shows, whether I'm playing indoor or outdoor gigs.

As I said I don't hate Taylor guitars - but I am extremely disappointed. My dream guitars have all turned into nightmares that hang on a wall and now serve only as reminders  as to reasons for never purchasing another Taylor guitar.


Again, these are simply my very own personal experiences with Taylor guitars. I believe its good to hear both sides of every subject. Taylor guitars may work fine for own personal needs and that's is absolutely wonderful..   Im just saying that as much as I have tried to find the Taylor "magic" it just isn't there for me at any quality level Taylor may offer. My audience doesn't care whether Im playing a 5000.00 Taylor or a 500.00 Yamaha or Tak guitar. They DO care that I sound good live... and for me that means, as an actual working musician, staying as far away from Taylor guitars as I can. Beautiful guitars....just not for me in the real world. Best wishes and hoping you individually that you all enjoy the very best experience with your new Taylor guitars !

Thanks for reading !

https://www.reverbnation.com/harrystout

https://soundcloud.com/harrystout

[TaylorGirl]

Again, these are simply my very own personal experiences with Taylor guitars.

That's the nice thing about all the guitar choices out there (so many wonderful makes and models), get and play what works for you. Sounds like you are moving away from Taylor......I'm sticking with them, because they work great for me. Good luck as you move on.

[Strumming Fool]

No harm no foul. With all the great choices out there, you get to like what you like. As a former professional player, I had the opportunity to play and own many fine guitars of different brands. I've found that the Taylor GA fits me and my playing style best, but it doesn't mean that they're objectively the best guitars in the world -  they just are for me. I've had great success with the ES1.3 pickup, but since Taylor only offers the ES 2 now, I've installed LR Baggs Lyrics in my old pure acoustics and my newer custom models.

Good luck as you continue your guitar journey!

[Christhee68]

I love my Martins (D-18 and HD-28) but my 314ce is a very dependable "workhorse" guitar. It sounds good, plays great, and stays in tune. I've used it at probably a hundred gigs and at church every Sunday for about 5 years.

My playing is probably not at the level of yours, but my Taylor works for me and I wouldn't be opposed to getting another one.

**EDIT** I just listened to your Soundcloud clips and my playing is DEFINITELY not at your level. 

[Earl]

Just another opinion that generally agrees with yours.  I love Taylor guitars - at one point I had nine of them because I really like the way they play.  But as for their pick up systems, not so much.  ES1.3 works fine for me, and I will keep it going as long as possible.  ES2 is a real obstacle for me, and I am highly unlikely to buy another Taylor because of it.  (Yes, I know that you can order without electronics,  but I prefer to test drive the actual guitar before purchasing).

So maybe Taylor is not for you..... because of the electronics.  I can understand that.

[Sprintbob]

Remove the ES2 from all of your Taylors (there are kits for plugging the upper bout holes) and just play plugged in with either the Fishman pickup or consider installing a K&K Pure Mini going thru a Tonedexter.

Seems like you should have stopped at the 314 or 514 and gone over to Martin, Gibson, Collings, etc.

[zeebow]

Remove the ES2 from all of your Taylors (there are kits for plugging the upper bout holes) and just play plugged in with either the Fishman pickup or consider installing a K&K Pure Mini going thru a Tonedexter.

Seems like you should have stopped at the 314 or 514 and gone over to Martin, Gibson, Collings, etc.

i was thinking that too - or a different body shape. and if fingers hurt - try a smaller nut width guitar or a short scale.

and if the electronics aren’t desired - can easily swap it out with a LR Baggs or K&K. many flavors to choose from

[Sprintbob]

I guess I also have to say I’ve never had any noticeable tuning/intonation issues with any Taylor guitar I have ever owned and never noticed any issues with my hands hurting after playing any amount of time for all the Taylors I have owned (814ce, Baby, Big Baby, GS Mini, 522e 12 fret, GS7, 812ce 12 fret, and currently K-22ce 12 fret, 714ce 12 fret, and 562ce 12 fret).

While I’ve been happy with the plugged in sound I get from my ES2 equipped guitars especially when I use them with a Tonedexter Wavemap, I can’t seem to get rid of a background hum with all three that is not present when I play plugged in with my K&K pickup equipped guitars so I’m partially with the OP in that context. If I order another Taylor in the future, it will for probably be without the ES2 and I’d probably install the simple and elegant K&K.

[Christhee68]

I was thinking about this thread again and it got me to thinking.

At least the OP gave it several years and several different tries before coming to his conclusion. I've read plenty of posts on "other" forums from people who've never even played a Taylor rant on and on about how they hate them. The OP made his decision based on his own in-depth personal experience.

[Earl]

.....and if the electronics aren’t desired - can easily swap it out with a LR Baggs or K&K. many flavors to choose from.

Except that it is not really "no harm, no foul".  You have paid twice - once for the Taylor system you didn't really want, and again for the new system that replaces it, plus the labor involved.  That bugs me.  I know it is a chicken-and-egg issue.  Dealers sell the most units with p/u because that is what they stock, because that is what Taylor pushes.  It's a self fulfilling prophesy.  But my point is made, and I'll stop posting about this now.

[Sprintbob]

.....and if the electronics aren’t desired - can easily swap it out with a LR Baggs or K&K. many flavors to choose from.

Except that it is not really "no harm, no foul".  You have paid twice - once for the Taylor system you didn't really want, and again for the new system that replaces it, plus the labor involved.  That bugs me.  I know it is a chicken-and-egg issue.  Dealers sell the most units with p/u because that is what they stock, because that is what Taylor pushes.  It's a self fulfilling prophesy.  But my point is made, and I'll stop posting about this now.

I think the hit would be less severe with the mid to upper level Taylors if you did this. A good tech would probably charge you between $100-$200 labor to remove the ES2 and install say something like a K&K. The K&K costs $100 and you would probably want to get a kit to fill the holes from the ES2 (about $50) so your total would be in the $250-$350 range I believe. If you already like the guitar, I think you come out ahead this way compared to the hit you would take to sell it and get something else.

[zeebow]

.....and if the electronics aren’t desired - can easily swap it out with a LR Baggs or K&K. many flavors to choose from.

Except that it is not really "no harm, no foul".  You have paid twice - once for the Taylor system you didn't really want, and again for the new system that replaces it, plus the labor involved.  That bugs me.  I know it is a chicken-and-egg issue.  Dealers sell the most units with p/u because that is what they stock, because that is what Taylor pushes.  It's a self fulfilling prophesy.  But my point is made, and I'll stop posting about this now.

or you can order without a pickup. or not buy a taylor. most people probably find the pickup just fine. taylors level of consistency makes buying a standard production model almost universal, the risk of it “not speaking to you” is almost zero

[zeebow]

.....and if the electronics aren’t desired - can easily swap it out with a LR Baggs or K&K. many flavors to choose from.

Except that it is not really "no harm, no foul".  You have paid twice - once for the Taylor system you didn't really want, and again for the new system that replaces it, plus the labor involved.  That bugs me.  I know it is a chicken-and-egg issue.  Dealers sell the most units with p/u because that is what they stock, because that is what Taylor pushes.  It's a self fulfilling prophesy.  But my point is made, and I'll stop posting about this now.

I think the hit would be less severe with the mid to upper level Taylors if you did this. A good tech would probably charge you between $100-$200 labor to remove the ES2 and install say something like a K&K. The K&K costs $100 and you would probably want to get a kit to fill the holes from the ES2 (about $50) so your total would be in the $250-$350 range I believe. If you already like the guitar, I think you come out ahead this way compared to the hit you would take to sell it and get something else.

agreed. the option to change it to a pickup that is preferred is significantly less than selling or keeping a guitar that doesn’t get played. or just play it acoustically. there’s endless solutions

[Edward]

That is a seriously long, arduous, and expensive experience you have there, with a litany of problems, shortcomings, dissatisfaction, with nary a positive in sight, except maybe that tidbit about Taylor's "excellent" CS.  Makes me wonder why you took so long, spent so much, and ultimately offer quite a bit of verbiage when all is so easily solved by simply buying what works for you.  But heck, maybe that's just my playing experience talkin.  May you finally play what satisfies you. 

Edward

[Capedbaldy]

To Harry1739 (the OP):

Why DID you keep sticking with Taylor after a subpar experience the first time (and again after the second…)?

That’s awesome that you’ve guitars you enjoy from other brands. Here’s some unsolicited advice: don’t waste any more of your time with Martins, Gibsons, Collings, [insert name of any guitar company except Tak or Yamaha] …buy and play what you love. Alternatively, try before you buy (or return it promptly). Life is too short to get “defeated by a guitar company” or to write long posts about “personal experiences” that ultimately does little for your or anyone’s guitar playing.

Now, if you were to share a picture of all of your dream/nightmare Taylor on a wall, that would be of great interest to members of a Taylor forum.